Interview (Part 6): Grace Sherman
My interview with the 2018 Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner.
Grace Sherman wrote the original screenplay “Numbers and Words” which won a 2018 Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Grace about her background, her award-winning script, the craft of screenwriting, and what winning the Nicholl has meant to her.
Today in Part 6, Grace provides advice to aspiring screenwriters.
Scott: I ask that question in all these interviews. I say, “How important is theme to you? Do you start with theme, or do they arise in the context of developing writing the story?”
More people tend to answer that it is something that emerges over time, but what I’m hearing from you is that it’s more frontloaded for you, that you want to have those themes bubbling in your thought processes upfront.
Grace: It is. It could be about forgiveness, isolation, loneliness, love, hope, vengeance, whatever it is. Just in general, that’s the therapeutic mind. You go to what’s behind everything, like, “This is what’s being presented on the surface, but what’s behind it?”
That’s naturally where my mind goes. Then I think, “OK, this is what is behind everything. How can this be presented again in a way that would connect with others and then what character? How would this fit with what character? What would the plot look like in the story and what dialogue would emerge?” For me, that’s how it works.
Scott: You’ve got, let’s say, some sort of anonymous story that you’re dealing with. How do you go about prepping it? Do you do brainstorming, or are there character development exercises you use, or plotting, or research and outlining? What’s your prep process like?
Grace: It’s usually a very internal process. It stays in my head for a bit before it gets somewhere on paper. It’ll just stay with me like when I heard about the Hero’s Journey, at that conference.
I was like, “OK. Place that somewhere. Hmm, that’s something cool to do something with.” Then it emerged in Numbers and Words. With me, I’ll think about something, feel something, and I’m like, “Hmm, this should be conveyed in some way.” Sometimes, immediately the characters will come up and the plot and the dialogue, and I can see it in my head.
Then, other times, it’s there but it’s not fully developed. [laughs] Basically, a roundabout answer to your question, it stays in my head a lot. [laughs] I don’t know if that answers your question.
Scott: I call writing a story “wrangling magic.” It’s interesting to hear you talk. It’s like me. I more often see these characters or hear them and follow that. It sounds like you’ve got a bit of an inverse thing, maybe at least in some respects.
For example, you said, “OK, Numbers and Words. I want to have that dialogue. Well, who’s gonna inhabit those two sides of things?” [laughs] The extent of the magic of how DeMarcus and Beth emerged. Do you have any specific things or is it just living with them in terms of developing your characters?
Grace: I just live with them and they emerged. I don’t know. Like that dialogue, like I said, I saw DeMarcus, he’s incarcerated, but what, about him, would present conflict? There has to be something special about him. OK, he likes math. He really likes math. He’s brilliant. Then it just goes from there. It just emerged.
Scott: What about pragmatically? Screenwriting is scene writing, so what do you think about when you are writing a scene? What are your goals when writing a scene?
Grace: Goals, let’s see, often it is to…Especially because I like relationships, often there’s going to be a significant relationship in the script. A scene would be to build on that relationship. Beth and DeMarcus are on the bus talking. I wanted to establish a conflict in the relationship, their perspectives, their passions, and what they are to each other.
Who is the character? Present the character in a way that you get a good sense of, “OK, this is who they are,” as well as advance the plot and maybe sow seeds now that we’ll come back to again in the second or third act. Usually with scenes, when I develop them, I’m thinking, “Well, how is this going all come together in the end?”
Scott: Let’s say you finish your first draft, and you’re faced with the rewrite process. What’s that process like for you? Is it fairly well constructed or do you just go at it? I remember what Diablo Cody says. She’s “like a cat obsessively cleaning herself.” [laughs] That’s how she looks at the rewriting process. What’s your rewriting process like?
Grace: Actually, I enjoy the rewrite much better than the first draft. Usually, with the first draft I know what I have to come back to, and what’s not sounding quite right and just needs to be cleaned up, but get it on paper first. Then I will read it again, go through little things here and there, this, that, clean this up, change this, do this, and then go back again.
Then I’ll get to a point where the mechanics are cleaned up and things like that. Then, how is it flowing? How is it sounding? When you talk about scenes, is this scene advancing the plot? Is it needed? Is this dialogue sharp enough? Is it as creative as it could be? Can I do something different with it?
Part of it, I go, first, just cleaning it up and then scene by scene or act by act as well, first 30 pages, second 30, whatever and really get into the heart of making it even more compelling, even more interesting, even more different, creative. That’s the process. Actually, I enjoy the rewrite.
Scott: Good for you because you’re going to be doing a lot of it.
Grace: Yes, I know!
Scott: What’s your writing process? Do you write every day, or do you write on the weekends or at night? What’s that process like?
Grace: I write, like you said, all of it [laughs] when I can. I have to write every day now that I’ve got a lot more people knowing that I’m writing. There’s something I can do every day, but then I do get those creative bursts where it’s scene after scene, I got it. I have to get it down and write several pages in one sitting. It just emerges. It’s all of that.
I don’t have a certain time of the day that I prefer. I do like writing in different environments, like going outside, going to the park, the library, being able to observe people. Even the non-verbal can help in terms of writing a scene or a character. That’s basically the process.
Scott: You’re a therapist. Do you find writing therapeutic?
Grace: I do. There are things that can’t be expressed in a formal setting, but they can be expressed through different characters. I do find it therapeutic. Not only for me, but there’s so many different stories out there. You come across that with the different people that you encounter. Different experiences to express, to show, and to convey.
Writing movies is a way of sharing those journeys and those stories in different ways..
Scott: Let’s ask one last question, which is a question I’m sure you’re going to be asked more and more frequently now as you move forward with your career, which is, what advice can you offer to aspiring screenwriters and filmmakers about learning the craft and breaking into Hollywood?
Grace: I would say, “Don’t give up. Learn as much as you can. There’s something always to learn about it. There’s screenplays. Read a lot of screenplays. Read books, blogs, but just learn as much as you can about it. Don’t give up. There’s a reason that you’re drawn to it, so hold onto that.
There’s a lot of different audiences out there and, like I said, a lot of different stories that need to be told. If there is a story inside of you that’s burning to get out, we need to hear it. There are audiences out there that need to hear your voice and to hear the stories that you want to tell. That’s what I would say. Don’t give up. No matter where you are, part of the world you are, there’s a way to get your story to where it needs to be.”
Scott: This has been a great conversation here, Grace. I’ve really enjoyed it. I was very pleased to hear that you read some of my Nicholl interviews in the past, and here you are being interviewed. That must be a little bit of the “Twilight Zone,” I imagine.
Grace: It is because I would read those interviews. I would think, “Oh, that’s so great. Oh, that’s how they came up with their script. Wow, what a great writing process.” [laughs] Now, I’m talking to you.
Things that seemed so far off are now front and center and present. Again, those interviews were very inspiring. It was great to read them. I’m glad you’re doing it. I’m grateful to be a part of the process, so thank you for taking the time to talk with me today.
Grace is represented by The Gotham Group.
For Part 1 of the interview, go here.
Part 2, here.
Part 3, here.
Part 4, here.
Part 5, here.
For my interviews with every Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winners since 2012, go here.
For my interviews with 53 Black List writers, go here.
